I'm not sure who (what group of members) you're referring to when you say "we've pointed to solutions" and (what group of members) "allows them to think a little on their own."

Aren't all members part of the "we" and "us" group?

Also, doesn't "give them the solution" suggest that there is only one solution to a coding problem? I think that we can probably both agree that there are oftentimes many ways to go about solving for a particular problem in anything that would be called a coded solution.

I really don't understand which subset of members you're referring to in:

"the incentive for us is to help them solve it"

However, by inference and the fact that I've posted a few "solutions," I can consider that by "us" you mean at least yourself and me? I don't suppose that I know what motivates your posts any more than I suspect you know what motivates mine. However, let me share that with you so that perhaps you can more finely tune your use of us and them so that it inclusive rather than exclusive. I believe that I am one of "them" ...not one of "us."

Everyone is unique in many ways and we all share a lot of commonality, many similarities. We all have a lot of the same kinds of needs. We all go through the same physical changes in life as we age. We all have various sets of skills of varying strengths and weaknesses.

By posting my code for all to see, I expose both my strengths and my weaknesses in a number of skilled areas. I invite criticism and I receive it based on my code and based on my interpretation of the problem and/or requirements. The characteristics of my design choices for implementation are equally exposed. There is nothing to hide behind. To me, it is a form of freedom. It keeps me from being shallow or narrow minded in somehow believing that I am some great software engineer (talk about an oxymoron!) whose skills are above others.

I believe that it gives others an opportunity to take from my experiences that which they believe is useful to them and give back wherever they might find a problem or perhaps a comment about how my design might be improved. Those who see my coding style are welcomed to emulate it if they desire. It isn't as if I've got some kind of patent on it or as if I even invented it. There are undoubtedly some "personal nuances" in it, but what thing man-made doesn't have such?

You seem to imply that I'm somehow giving away the answers to the test questions with my posts. I don't know about you, but I learned C before colleges here started regularly teaching it. I learned C through examples of other programmers' codes and from applying those learnings to project-related problems that I encountered. It wasn't like I got to sit in a class and work out cool C problems. So for me, some of the motivation is in coming up with a solution as if I was a student of the language, too.

In fact, I believe that we're all students of the language. I definitely know that I don't know everything there is to know about C and/or C++. I sometimes wonder if I know anything at all...especially after finding stupidity bugs in my code.

On the other hand, you obviously have a different set of motivations and methods. It seems to me that you tend to think of yourself as less of a student of the language and more of a master of it. You indulge in expressions such as "after 30 years of programming" that indicate you have reached some milestone of personal accomplishment in the industry.

TreyAU21 has in his (current) signature a phrase that goes something like:

If practice makes perfect and nobody's perfect why practice?

The answer is that practice does not make perfect. If you practice the wrong things for 10 minutes or even 30 years, you will certainly get no closer to perfection. Therefore, time alone doesn't make you (or me or anyone) an accomplished programmer. We know from experiences that people generally get better at doing things the longer they're at doing it, up to a point. However, after 30 years of programming, what more could you possibly do to get better at doing what you do?

What you could do is offer more of your code for others to see, dissect and scrutinize. It is truly liberating. There is no place to hide when you post your code. All of your "programming warts" become visible for others to see. They're not hidden away in some binary object file waiting for just the right state or execution path to crash and burn...or even silently and subtly perform some benign behavior.

I'm not suggesting that you adopt my methods or model my coding style, convention, practices or anything anywhere in between. I believe that every man (and woman) must choose the path they want to be on. Didn't Getty Lee (Rush) tell us that even if we don't choose, we still have made a choice?

However, I believe in inclusiveness not exclusiveness. Sure I get annoyed when someone posts the typical "Internet Punk" message filled with "ur" and "i" and every other thing like "thx" and "plz." But usually their code is a reflection of their post, too. Cryptic variable names, jammed together and inconsistent statements...what I call "ugly" code from a format and coding-style issue, but also oftentimes "ugly" from a design perspective, too.

So, I offer my own style, designs and implementation choices for others to see. They're welcomed to comment here, as with anything else you'd expect in a public forum. I certainly do not offer my code as being bug-free and/or ready for use in controlling the next nuclear power plant design, rather, I offer it as a possible aid in finding the direction other coders may wish to take toward a similar goal.

It isn't an us or them thing to me WaltP. We are all of us...and there are probably as many "solutions" to every coding problem as there are individual coders. I'm sure that you can "see" the personality in someone's code. I doubt that an instructor would be fooled by anyone turning in "my" work as their own...even though all of my work is built atop of the work of examples others have given to me.

In that light, if I can give a useful example to someone else that they can use and build on, then I'm all for it. Maybe what has been missing from this forum (until I arrived) was more solutions? Okay, maybe not. But does a different perspective cause you that much grief?


...hinting at possible avenues of approach are probably better for more advanced programmers, IMO. Once someone understands the fundamentals of using the standard library and is comfortable with most of the features of a language, then a generalists' "30,000-feet" view is probably a good one to take. For someone struggling with "how in the world can I even begin to tackle this challenge?" I find that a comprehensive example works better. I believe that it gives the person an opportunity to work through the code that does the task so that s/he can see how the work was separated into different subcomponents and handled in smaller chunks. Also, by presenting a complete idea, one can realize the benefit of coding to a particular style or set of patterns rather than being tossed into the deep-end and told to swim. While they may actually survive, will they become an Olympic swimmer as a result of it? Wouldn't they do better with better instruction and guidance on how to properly stroke and breathe, etc.?

I don't suppose that you should ever come to accept my methods as being your own for any particular reason at all. And I am certainly not the one to say that your methods don't have a better overall productivity ratio than mine. I haven't done the research on it...nor do I intend to! However, I think that this forum is "big enough for the both of us" when there is a layer of respect that comes with a philosophy that is inclusive rather than exclusive. To me, it is not "us and them" and "we" doesn't need to be defined as a different group of people based on the context in which it is used. To me "us" is all of us and "we" is all of us, too...regardless of how many years one of us has been practicing it.


:davis:

You're going to have to pay me some royalties for quoting that.

__________________
If practice makes perfect and nobody's perfect... why practice?

Homepage: http://www.treywhite.com
Blog: http://www.treywhite.com/blog.php
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...how much if I just paraphrase it?!


:davis: