I shall start a lil debate on what's so good about the linux. Frankly speaking i have been really wondering is linux really better than windows ?

I shall list out what i feel:

Linux

Pros:

• Its more secured
• Less prone to viruses due to frequent patches
• Less prone to viruses since theres less people using it compared to windows ?
• Its file system is more efficient as compared to window's
• Its file system itself is a security feature ?
• It's free
• It uses less system resources
• It crashes less than windows ?
• theres a widebase support in the particular distro's website forums.
• Unsurpassed computing power, portability, and flexibility
• Makes use of the most recent hardware advancements like Duo Core, QuadCore, 64bits

Cons:

• a great big no no for gamers.
• Many windows Apps could not be run without using WINE
• Open office isnt as great as MS office (IMHO)

Windows:

Pros:

• You feel more comfortable using it since its available everywhere
• Ability to play 99% of the games produced for the market.
• No brainer OS which doesnt need any extra tweaking and stuff

Cons:

• Its extremely prone to security loop holes
• many times when an apps crashes, windows simply leave huge amount of data in the temp folder
• Crashes easily ?

Is there any other feedbacks that i can get ? Hmm. feel free to criticise. Basically i just need confirmation or feedback on the listed items marked with a question mark, as im not too sure about that particular point myself.

I have always wanted to change over in using linux, but theres this inertia thats stopping me... esp with windows vista lurking in the corner. Thus i wrote this thread to trash things out, hopefully i can make up my mind soon.

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<ramble>
Many people oppose MS because of how they have treated people over time. They were found guilty of being a monopoly and hurting the market by both the US Dept. of Justice and the European Union; unfortunantly the US never followed through with serious "hurt" to MS so MS has pretty much continued business as usual.

GNU/Linux is more secure simply because the source code is open to everyone to see; anyone with skills can look at the code for the OS or kernel and scour for bugs. You simply can't do that with Windows. Yes, fewer people use Linux and patches come out in a matter of hours/days vs. Windows' weeks/months (if patched at all), but Linux is simply built more secure.

If someone doesn't like how the software works or wants to improve it, he can. You don't have to wait for features to be implemented by MS. And you're not beholden to corporate interests (read: DRM, licensing deals, etc.) that will affect your ability to use your computer the way you want.

Linux is as easy to learn as Windows. Most people simply don't remember how long it took them to learn how to properly use Windows. Most people just turn on the computer and use it; you can do the same thing with Linux nowadays. To truly harness the power of the OS (any version), you have to take the time to read books and look at documentation. I've downloaded volumes of documents for Linux, I've got a "bible" for OS X, and back in the day I read magazines and books about Windows. It all depends on how much of the inner workings of the system you want to learn.

A big plus for many people is that GNU/Linux comes with gcc and other programming tools. Windows doesn't have that; DOS used to come with BASIC installed but now, if you want to program on Windows, you have to get the tools elsewhere. This means that anyone can learn to program with a basic Linux install, which in turn means anyone can tweak the software to their liking. WIth Windows, you're stuck with what your system comes with until you either buy or download programming tools.

Another huge benefit to Linux is the number of programs that come with it. Even a dirt-basic install of Ubuntu includes text editors, office suites, programming tools, several dozen games, media viewers, etc. A base Windows install has (effectively) nothing; all you get is Notepad (a basic text editor that doesn't even have syntax highlighting), Wordpad (a "more advanced" text editor that doesn't have many useful features), a few games, and that's about it. There are no office productivity apps included, you can't learn to program, and you're limited in the media use options.

One complaint people have about Linux is that it has too many options, whether it's the number of programs that do the same thing or the number of settings a person can change in a program. Of course, if you don't like it, you don't have to use all the options available to you. Pick the few apps you like and use the default settings. That's always an option.

One of the benefits of Windows is the number of apps for it, though not nearly as many as the *nix world has. Games are the biggest thing though. However, a good portion of the games you can get for Windows you can also get for a game console. Sure, the control scheme may suck compared to a mouse & keyboard, but at least you still have the game. And with Xbox Live et al. you have access to patches and game upgrades, just like with computer games.

Windows has "dumbed down" the user experience. For computer novices, the default settings usually work; even if they don't, people are so used to them that they just work around an problems that may occur because "computers just work like that". People who know better can make Windows work the way they want it to, but it takes a lot of work and usually requires installing other programs.

Windows is popular, no doubt. But using Linux can help in that matter: when someone asks you how to fix a problem in Windows, you can always say, "I'm not sure. I use Linux and don't have that problem." Then you don't have to provide tech support for friends and family.

Finally, simply by learning a little bit about Linux makes you look like a god in the eyes of others. You've shown that you are willing and able to learn new things, your computer skills are assumed to be advanced, and people just generally assume that you're a stud. Their mindset is, "Any chump can use Windows. It takes a real man to use Linux". This mindset can help you when it comes to jobs; even if you can't use your Linux skills at work, you've shown that you are able to adapt to new situations and are a "take charge" kind of guy. And obviously it looks good on a resume.</ramble>

That's about all I can say on the matter now. Perhaps I'll voice other ideas later.

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Hmmm.By this, i guess you meant that you have to read up on a particular OS just to be truly efficient on it ?

Oh yes, i was wondering on how exactly could you customise
linux? I read about: Scripts(in the bash command), downloading little bit of Apps and widget only. Is there any other simple popular ways of customising linux as well ? Cause in my mind, i see linux as an OS that could be modifiy in any single way, and almost everything that you wished to be modified could be modified, that is if you are Good at computer programming... Same goes for creating and editing various apps for your own needs i guess.




high five on this statement!



This is actually one of the few main reasons why i would want to learn to use linux properly. I have been attached before to some engineering research firm while schooling, and i was quite shocked to see the whole place being "controlled" by unix systems. Nonetheless, i was quite lucky that i had previous experience with unix, which made me sort of stands out among my other peers that were attached to the firm as well Meanwhile MAC OS X is something i havent really read up on before, but i guess its sort of simiar to Linux isnt it ? as in the kernel and the Bash command prompt thing.

shall sign off now, am still waiting for prices to drop for Core 2 duo before i build a new system for myself, and at the same time preventing myself from being entice by windows once again, and to install Ubuntu linux

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Sort of. What I mean is to get the most out of your OS you should take the time to learn how it works. It doesn't take a lot of effort to learn how to fix a computer or become a power user. Most people just think there is some magic to it and don't want to take the time to learn. How often has someone told you "I don't know anything about computers."? Depending on how generous I'm feeling, I'll either show them how to do something or I'll tell them to look at the help files and search the Internet. People are always "amazed" at how computer-smart I am, but I just tell them that nearly everything I know is self-taught. They can do it too if they truly cared about using a computer effectively.
Depends on how you want to customize it. Obviously there are shell commands and scripts to automate tasks. But nearly every program for Linux has text-based config files, meaning you can open the config file in a text editor and read exactly what it's supposed to do. Often you don't need anything else to figure it out; the config file has numerous comments and examples that show you how to change it. Take a look at Apache's files when you get a chance.

You don't have to be a computer programmer to get Linux working the way you want, though if you want to change how the underlying software works you might want to learn. Generally if you can learn how the Unix system works, e.g. filesystem structure, basic commands, etc., you can make your changes to the config files. If you use a GUI such as KDE or GNOME, then you rarely have to touch the files themselves; most GUI apps have a GUI interface to their config files, just like Windows.

You'll still want to know how to use the command line because sometimes there is just no other way to do what you want. And sometimes it's just faster to do something at the CLI rather than working through the GUI.
OS X is the Aqua GUI running on FreeBSD using the Mach kernel. If you know Unix then you effectively know the CLI for the Mac. Actually, many Linux commands are very similar to BSD, so if you know one you pretty much know the other. I have both Linux and OS X at home and switch between them with little effort. The only problem is remembering the nuances of each OS's command structure.

If you use Fink or DarwinPorts, then you can install nearly all the Linux apps that are available (assuming they've been ported), so its almost like having the best of both worlds. And with Parallels or Boot Camp, your Mac can have all three major OSes installed: OS X, Linux, and Windows.

The only other thing I can add is that I just haven't been too impressed w/ Ubuntu. It just doesn't feel right to me. And it's difficult to get a programmer/developer system up and running, at least in my experience. Ubuntu doesn't include many programming tools in the default install. It seems like Ubuntu is designed more for the casual Linux user who wants a Linux desktop (that looks like a Linux system, as oppposed to Xandros which looks like Windows) but doesn't plan on tweaking the system too much.

I'd recommend trying it, but also try several others (Suse, Knoppix, Mepis, Gentoo, etc.) before you stick with one. www.distrowatch.com is a good place to see what's available. In the last five years, I've tried Libranet, Suse, Mandrake, Gentoo, Mepis, Knoppix, Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Puppy, FreeBSD, and probably a few others I can't remember. My personal preference is Gentoo.

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Common Sense v2.0-Striving to make the world a little bit smarter.

I have got an e-book sitting on my desk top called "The Unix Hater's Handbook", and after looking at Linux I can say they are people after my own heart. Have you ever tried installing a device driver on Linux? If so, and you enjoyed the experience, you are truly a masochist. Linux's fundamental failing is that it was originally a hobby operating system, written by geeks and for geeks. Which is fine for geeks. But most people buy a car expecting not to have to become a motor car mechanic before they can drive it.

Ya know, if you have nothing constructive to add, why bother? If you don't consider yourself a "geek", that's fine. Some people want to try something new. Regardless of how it started out, a "hobby OS" that is taking over the server market and threatens Microsoft's monopoly is a force to reckoned with. So many companies either use it, support it, or provide software for it means it's not just for geeks. Heck, you can buy Linux computers at Walmart; you just don't get much more mainstream than that. Joe Consumer can run Linux just fine without touching the command line; nearly everything has a GUI nowadays, so why not try it? It doesn't cost anything.

And AAMOF, I have installed device drivers on Linux. Sometimes it can be a pain (such as sound card drivers on my Sony laptop under Suse), sometimes it's a piece of cake (the same sound card drivers under Libranet). However, 95% of the time I don't need to; Linux has the drivers I need by default, unlike Windows.

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If there was any real chance of denting Microsoft's dominance, Apple would have done it long ago. (With their certainly more user friendly operating system).

I promise never to darken the doors of a Linux forum again. Mind you, that is not the most difficult problem I am ever going to have to keep.

I disagree, because Apple doesn't sell operating systems. They sell computers, i.e. hardware. They have chosen not to license OS X to Dell, et al. even though Dell has asked Apple to sell the OS separately. Apple isn't interested in having everyone run OS X. They can guarantee a "perfect" experience because they can control nearly every aspect of the computer.

Same thing with iPods: Apple is selling the hardware by creating a market via iTunes. The money is in the hardware, not the software. Ergo, Apple is perfectly happy in their position because they make a large profit on each product that is sold, and they don't have any significant issues of piracy.

The Linux crowd simply doesn't care about market share or install base. If people want to use it, great. If not, it doesn't matter. It's all about choice. IMO, no one will offer a serious competition to MS on the desktop simply because it doesn't matter. The big money is in enterprise solutions, server farms, and support contracts.

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lol i get what you meant by this. Its true that linux could be quite troublesome at times. But currently, installing device driver in linux are much easier than in the past.


To summarise this, i think you meant that linux is kind of hard to use for the general public ? which i have to agree to as well, for linux system in the past. Right now, i think you should try installing any latest linux system n try it out, you could really do fine by simply clicking around linux much like windows. Actually windows is kind of hard to use as well. I have friend who dont really know how to use windows well alr, like how to create new folders, connect to the internet etc.

Actually, come to think of it, linux is much like MAC OS already. Just that it lacks the apparant advertising power, since theres no central body advocating it, and deffinitely no IPOD(or rather I-TUX, pun intended for those who know what i mean) to further promote Linux to the wider market. Windows also use to do loads of advertising when it first came out btw. Also,linux is perhaps only widely known to ppl in the engineering field as well as those in the IT fields, since ppl from these fields most certainly use linux in most of their job scope.


I guess this is known as "inertia" ? haha. people are simply too reluctant to change to MAC OS as its not ecnomically viable. imagine the amount of money needed to be spent on re training people on how to use MAC OS, implementing new softwares etc.

Overall, i think each OS dominates a certain field. Like how windows is dominating the general market, while MAC OS is dominating the design industries, Linux in the engineering field, Unix in the IT field etc.



ooh i would love to add that Apple also sells very cool softwares! Like the motion2!!!!!, iitunes, final cut studio. Motion 2 is the main reason why i would use the MAC

Btw, is there a way to install OS X on a normal intel computer ? i heard you have to do alot of cracking and tweaking to run OS X without actually buying the hardware from apple ?


yea, if anyone visit a research firm before and see the amount of computers server they have there, and the crazy amount of money paid for each individual computer license etc, they would understand what you meant by this.

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oh yes just to add, does linux supports quad core or duo core intel Procs ? I suppose they do, just want to confirm. Than what about graphics card ? do they suport them automaticaly as well ? or do i have to install drivers for those.

for duo core procs, how would i know if linux is making full use of the 2 processors ? like for example, in windows, when you press ctrl alt del, you would be able to see 2 processor Graph / chart as compared to a single processor, you would only be able to see a single chart.

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