davis, your last post added absolutely nothing to the discussion. While you are not required to stop posting additional information, no one is required to continue posting either.

I have asked you a number of times to refrain from posting OT just to poke at the poster, and not their posted problem.


Why would that be so difficult? Those are your words. IMO, they would have been more likely to have gotten a positive result.

You can always start a thread to show a solution and explain the ways you did it. I have seen precious few of these. When you are the OP either people will join in or not. Compelling people to continue after completion is not something we do here. Most posters are relatively new, and have other fish to fry.

Now, once again, for everyone here:

Mark

I respectfully disagree. The post added the fact that I wanted to see the input file regardless of whether the OP had completed a particular objective. Of course no one is required to continue posting. What harm is there in asking that someone simply send the input file contents?



I did not post OT, IMO. Nor did I intend "just to poke at the poster." My goal was to simply clarify that I wanted to see the file and that I felt that the OP's comments were a bit rude since he basically misinterpreted WHY I wanted to see the input file as being stupidity for not having read his post.

He also said that I was "a bit harsh" to WaltP, the guy who really helped him out. My comments to WaltP were, IMO, definitely not harsh, but intended solely to better understand WaltP's thinking and to establish an answer to:

I agree that dynamic memory tends to be more complicated, but at what point do you recommend that newcomers start getting their heads around it? It seems to me that the proper point would be when it is warranted by the coding effort, what are your thoughts on this topic?

I also suggested (by inference) that WaltP should give advice that is legal C, if he's going to write code. I mean, it seems to me to be the minimalist effort required for someone with his stated 30+ years of programming experience. You see, I believe that thoroughness is a trait of a quality programmer.



I agree. That's why I wrote them. My original question (do you have it or not) was obviously too brief and too abbreviated. Please forgive me for utilizing less than fully verbose text in this particular occasion. I had written a piece of code and simply wanted the input file. I wasn't thinking about social graces as much as I was thinking that if I just had the input file, then I could show the OP the code that I was discussing in my replies. While I'm certain that the OP can care less whether I live or die, much like you and WaltP, my intention was to simply offer what I consider to be "value added" to the discussion and to the OP's basic problem domain. Granted, apparently nobody else here feels that unbounded static arrays are dangerous, and I fully agree with WaltP in that "too much" for a beginner is not very helpful. However, I also believe that by posting "more" that it opens the eyes of those who are "lurking" and/or those OP's that would look through it and realize the benefit of "advanced" coding practices. I fully realize that this concept is not shared on the ol' GIDForums C or C++ forums. What we've basically got here is 99% newbie requests and 1% of cool technical discussion. All I'm trying to do is, among those who would like more of the "CTD," is to inspire some discussion based on code, coding practices and the notion of "engineering" quality code. I realize that I am in a major minority group here, but I'm trying to help others see the light. It is unfortunate that my methods seem to be met with hostility as I definitely do not feel hostile toward anyone here. I am, sometimes, annoyed by some responses, but I'm certainly human, too.


(clarifying) Are you seriously advocating that I start a new thread to discuss a solution to a different thread's content/problem? I just want to understand how your thinking works around here. This seems adverse to the guidelines portion that says:

6: Do not start new threads on the same topic. Keep replying to the original thread.

I'm just trying to be a good GIDForums citizen.


Come on...what did I do other than to ask for the stupid input file contents. Even a couple of lines. It wasn't as if I was asking for a first-born or something. What is with this "we do here?" I'm not part of the "we" but you and others are? Why can't I ask someone to continue? I spent time writing a solution that was, hopefully, rather elegant but totally futile without the input file. I simply wanted to share it with the OP and those who would gain value from seeing such a solution. Granted, the solution is not for every single user here due to the implied "complexity" of some of the coding "features," but aren't we all trying to learn a little bit more about the language(s) and what is possible?

In the past, others have criticized me for trying to be "better" than others here. It is NOT that at all. In fact, all I seek here is critical review of my own code. I want people who can say, hey, this sucks because of this reason. Or, maybe you might want to consider, THIS choice or way of doing things.


Look Mark, I realize that I'm not your favorite GIDForums member. Maybe you can sit back and reflect on the notion that my intentions are simply to offer better code and hopefully better concepts and ways of thinking about writing code to this membership. That is not to say that my methods are universally accepted, but seriously, what is one to do when faced with loads and loads of half-baked "advice?"

I tell business customers that, IMO, 80% of all programmers suck. It isn't because they're "bad people" or because they don't mean well, rather, it is because they write "bad" code. Obviously, this is MY opinion. I'm not trying to point the finger at those who write bad code as much as I'm trying to see if there isn't SOMETHING that I can do to help be part of the solution. Seriously, how can I, as one person in the whole FRICKEN world of some 6 or 7 billion "consumers" lend something meaningful back that will have a POSITIVE result in reducing the amount of "bad code" in the world.

Well, I'm obviously vainly trying by using the GIDForums. When I ask WaltP for his thoughts, I AM NOT BAITING him. I seriously want to know where his head is for a given topic. This is JUST LIKE his constant "canned response" posting to newbies who screw-up the guidelines in their first posts. It goes something like: Tell us how we can make it more OBVIOUS so that you will ACTUALLY READ the F&$*ing guidelines...without the expletives. In one respect I can feel his pain. In another, who made him traffic cop? I don't mean to be rude, I think that he provides a useful service, but I'm seriously wondering how many responses he's ever got that really add some value to his basic question. I made a suggestion, it was seemingly ignored, and he never wrote that "canned message" to me. I actually read the guidelines before my first post. That doesn't mean that I haven't occasionally stepped on one or more of them from time to time.

I don't want to make anyone here feel uncomfortable, but if it is something that I can do that will help them write better code, is it possible that it could be worth it? How can I (or anyone) possibly know what will make someone else uncomfortable. I've known people who simply can not stand showing any of their code to others. For whatever reasons, maybe they're insecure or whatever, but they just can't do it. What I've discovered in my time on this rock, is that those who are able to show their code, to take critical response to it are those who are able to improve their code and their coding methods. Sure, too much "critique" is harmful, particularly of individual's feelings. That's why I try to tell people that Your Code Is NOT You. At best, it is a momentary expression of some ideas that you had over a given period AND your abilities to express them through the language you use(d).

Who here hasn't looked at code they wrote in the past and said something to the effect of: "What was I thinking?" I am not above that. We all learn something every day we write code. None of us know it all. Certainly not me. I think that some people feel that I come across as some kind of "know-it-all" because I ask questions that ask others to explain how they think. The most important single aspect of writing programs is the mindset of the programmer. What is that person thinking!? (Not meant to be insulting to anyone, just a very simply, somewhat exclamatory statement with some notion of interrogativeness.)

Your thinking on my previous, now deleted reply didn't allow the OP time to even reasonably consider sending the contents (partial or not) of the input file. You simply read from it something that made you think that I was being hostile toward the OP. That I was unnecessarily "compelling" the OP to continue the thread. All I was trying to do was say, Yes, I got that you're done, but I wanted to see the input file. What is so wrong with that? And, why did I receive the response that I did from the OP? I can't be more stupid for not reading the post and seeing that he's already completed the project. As I wrote earlier, okay, I was too brief and didn't explain why I wanted to see the file. But why must everyone first assume that I'm stupid and incapable of reading?

Why are you not locking out those who have 3 posts and "transgressing" the guidelines and you happily serve that honor to me when all I want to do is contribute something meaningful to the community? As I've said, my methods are obviously a source of conflict with you. I find that with a lot of people who can't code worth a damn. I'm not saying that you fit into that category, I'm just stating is as a descriptive element of observation that seems to be common. I think that it stems from pride. I think that somehow, when someone first begins learning to code, that they have some kind of great sense of satisfaction about accomplishing whatever element of coding challenge they endeavored. I mean, that's fine with me. What I can't understand is then why, when someone knows that they're a beginner, why can't they understand that someone else can find room for improvement in their code? They often seem to react in a manner that is defensive and oftentimes come out supporting their code in what I call a "fight to the death" over being "wrong." Obviously, all of these quoted elements are subject to vast debate and endless argument...otherwise, it wouldn't be a f-ing fight to the death, would it?!

What can we, as RESPONSIBLE PROGRAMMERS do to aid the next generations of programmers so that they produce better code in fewer numbers of years of experience AND so that they don't fall into the 80-percentile category? Maybe I'm just way overly too ambitious for this group? Please excuse me for trying. Better code doesn't make a person better. Better code makes a person a better coder. In an environment where the stated purpose is to be a better programmer, why is so much of our time spent focused on non-code? My personal belief is that too few people really want the code to be "better." They simply want it to do some intended I/O. For the most part, they don't care if the code is "elegant" or not. I'm not even here to suggest that code needs to be elegant. I just want it to be a whole lot less crappy than what I regularly see "in the real world."


:davis:

I will not insult your intelligence by thinking you are too stupid to realize what you are doing; please don't insult mine. Trolls usually choke the un-moderated forums, where they can troll without interference, but I guess the best of them enjoy more giving moderators a hard time.

I don't like having to delete posts or close threads - and strangely, up until you came along, I didn't have too - but if that is the only way I can keep the Forums clean and friendly, so be it. I would like it if my Moderator job only consisted of editing posts for code tags, but that would be living in a perfect world.

This thread has drifted a long way from the original problem, and the OP is satisfied with the response he got, therefore I am closing it.

If you feel like my actions are unfair, please contact the administration through the "Contact us" form.

P.S: There were hundreds of situations when the thread went beyond the original question + response scope, either because a member challenged the presented solution and proposed a new one, or he just wanted to discuss related issues. However, that member has done it in a respectful manner, and persuaded the OP to explore other possibilities. We all know that could have been accomplished in this case too, but that wasn't your purpose, was it?